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 Beginner Breads
 2. Creating a Wild-Yeast Starter (Mother)
 Week 3... Batter didnít rise
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 08 2018 :  6:50:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iím sure this is just normal, and after reading others comments I feel better. It was week 3 and I mixed my batter and after it had been on the proofer at 85 for 9+ hours it hadnít risen barely a hair. I went ahead and baked it, obiviously it was super dense, but the flavor was good. Do you think I am doing anything wrong?
Sometimes it has had a super strong vinegar smell, like that super strong aged cheese kinda smell.
It has bubbles in it, my mother has been having bubbles. But it just never would rise.

I was worried about the ďYour Mother may never get over your transgressionĒ yeast part. Occasionally my family has brought in organic yeast breads and but we consumed the in one meal. Do you think that is ok?

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1

Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 09 2018 :  08:33:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seeing bubbles in your mother is a great sign. Based on the vinegar smell you've noticed in your mother, I think stirring it a good 30 seconds longer at each feeding to aerate it should remedy this. I'm guessing you have a bit of lacto-bacteria hogging the food supply. Stirring it a little longer will encourage the wild yeast to multiply and hopefully balance your mother out.

As far as bringing other yeast breads into your home, just make sure they are sealed and kept away from your mother.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 09 2018 :  1:53:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok good. I will start stirring it longer. Hopefully my bread will rise better this week. I will let you know!

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 14 2018 :  1:18:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This was my mother at 10:30 AM before I made bread.

This was my bread when I put it in my proofer (85 deg F.) at 11:15 AM


This was my bread at 2:00 PM I thought I saw a few bubbles and thought it may have risen a tad...


This was my bread just now at 4:00. It doesn't seem to be rising any. Does it normally go this slow at the beginning? How long should I leave it in the proofer?

At 2:00 we did bake a Frozen Organic Cheese Pizza from Lidl, would that be causing it to not rise or is my mother just not ready yet?

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 14 2018 :  1:44:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another thought I was looking at you ďFinger Shaking admonitionsĒ I use the filtered water from out fridge? We change the filters in our house regularly. Itís deep well water that goes through a whole house filter, and then through the fridge filter?
We have always used our house water. Do you think I should switch to the reverse osmosis water you can buy at Whole Foods? If so, would I have to start over or could I just start using it?
Maybe Iím overthinking or rushing things. I just want my bread to rise:)

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 14 2018 :  3:03:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. It doesn't look like your bread rose hardly at all. At this point you should be seeing some amount of rise. Thank you for posting pictures--it's really helpful to have a visual of what's happening. The picture of your mother is interesting. The bubbles are so small and uniform. Normally, mothers will have bubbles of varying sizes, like the picture on p. 29, or like the one I posted on the chatroom under Beginner Batter Breads, White Flour Batter Bread.

From what I gather, you have two likely suspects. The first is your water. You said it is from a well that goes through an in-home filtration system, and then through your fridge filter. Are you adding the cold water directly from your refrigerator to your mother? Or are you letting it warm to room temperature before adding it? The cold temperature of your refrigerator water wouldn't make the yeasts in your mother very happy. The second is the presence of other yeasted breads. With these two variables, it's tough to troubleshoot what is happening with your mother.

I suggest switching to distilled water to eliminate the possibility that it is your water source. From there, we can work on troubleshooting what is happening with your mother. I hate to say scrap it all and start over, but given that you are 4 weeks in and your breads aren't rising, I think that is the best option.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 14 2018 :  6:46:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

It started rising but its very slow! this was at 6:49 PM (I'm EST)


This was at 8:14 PM


This was 9:12 PM so its been 10 hrs in my proofer at 85 Deg F.

I keep my water in a 64oz Hydro Flask so when I put it in the water is cold and gradually may warm up over the week. But itís probably a while before it gets to room temp. Should I switch to a different container. I just didn't have a large glass jug, I wasn't sure if plastic is ok. I have large plastic water containers but not any large glass ones.

We don't have bread in the house all the time but my mom had bought some and we are keeping it under a glass dome. Its hard for the rest of my family to go without bread, lol. My dad and mom did have sandwiches at lunch and we heated that pizza. After that it did seem to rise better once we had it all cleaned up.

Now what do you think?

I'm hoping it will rise all the way up top so I can bake it before I go to bed, but its going to be late.

Oh and just a little background, I'm 22, still live at home. I work part time at a daycare. My dad is a Pastor, my mom is a stay at home, homeschool mom. I have a 19 year old sister and a 13 year old brother. We live on a small farm, raise our own cows, pigs, and chickens etc. I have a older brother who is married, he and his wife have two children.

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1

Edited by - Elisabeth_P on Sep 15 2018 08:42:47 AM
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 14 2018 :  6:49:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh yes that is normally how my mother has been having bubbles, sometimes it has a few larger ones but mostly the small tiny ones.

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 15 2018 :  08:26:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

This was at 11:30PM I waited as long as could. I didn't want to leave it all night because I thought it may rise to high. (If that's even possible)


This was it at 1:00 AM right before I baked it.


This morning when I cut it, and my mom and I tried it. The taste was good, it reminded me of the sourdough artisan bakery round that we got from the local coop a while back. The texture was still dense, gummy, and very chewy. Best way I can describe it (which still isnít the best way probably) is that it was like a bad store bought tough bagel. Is that because it didn't rise all the way and spent all day rising?

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1

Edited by - Elisabeth_P on Sep 15 2018 08:40:58 AM
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 15 2018 :  12:19:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iím glad you were able to see some rise in your breads! They can rise too much and spill over. They can also rise and then collapse in the middle if left too long, so your instinct to not leave it overnight was spot on. A 10:30 am to 1:00 am rise is really long. How sour was your bread? With a rise that long, an overly-sour flavor is the most likely result. The dense, gummy texture is because your breads didnít rise all the way. Batter breads have a high moisture content, so they are moist, but not gummy.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 15 2018 :  12:48:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah it had a very nice strong tang to it, better than last weeks attempt though. So you think itís ok to keep the mother I have? Just make sure I am using room temperature water? We did buy some purified water. Should I switch to that? Or is it bad to switch water on your mother?l

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 17 2018 :  08:51:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since you were able to coax a rise out of it, I would keep it going. The stronger tang will mellow out if your breads begin rising faster. Making sure the water is room temperature will help for sure. Switching to purified water will also be good, just to be on the safe side. The water switch won't harm your mother since the switch is to purified. If it goes well this week, then you know you are heading in the right direction.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 22 2018 :  6:11:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So yesterday was week 5 Bake day, my mother did better, but she still didn't rise all the way after 11+ hrs. I did accidentally miss one feeding, so that makes me only have like 5 cups of batter after I take the 1/2 cup of mother out for the next week. I did switch to the purified water about mid week.
This upcoming week I am banning my family from eating bringing any yeast breads in at all.


This was at 11:30 AM


This was at 1:15 PM


At 4:00 PM


At 11:00 PM


At 12:30 AM right before I baked it. Notice how it didn't hardly rise from 11-12:30?

This is what it looked like after. It was still chewy and had a strong tang. Which I somewhat expected.


When it finally does right will the texture be like regular artisan sour dough bread?

My mother still has the small bubbles, this is what she looked like Wednesday morning


Thanks for all your help! Could it be the difference in the climate in North Carolina for Idaho thats making it rise slow??

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1

Edited by - Elisabeth_P on Sep 22 2018 6:13:27 PM
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 23 2018 :  09:45:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That looks like great progress! Notice how this week, the tops of your Batter Breads look completely different in the before and after rising pictures? You can see that there are large bubbles just beneath the surface in the after picture. This is great progress! Your mother looks much better. While the bubbles are small, they vary in size and shape. In the previous image you posted of your mother, the bubbles were all the same small, round shape. This week, you have bubbles of varying sizes add shapes, which is more what I am accustomed to seeing in a mother.

Once your mother is mature and rising breads to the edge of the pan within 6-8 hours, the batter breads will have a moist interior with a crispy exterior. Make sure you are dusting the baking dish with flour after buttering itóthis will produce a wonderfully crisp crust. It will not be like a ďtraditionalĒ crusty sourdough loafóthe Beginner Dutch-Oven Bread on p. 46 will be close to this. Once you move on to the Advanced Breads Section, the Boule recipe on p. 70 produces a great crusty loaf.

Since you are using a proofer, I donít think the difference in climate is the issue. I think that the wild-yeast development in your mother has been hindered for some reason. Just by the changes in the way your mother looks and performs from last week to this week, you are on the right track.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 23 2018 :  11:58:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh Good, I get kinda discouraged when it takes it so long to rises. I am so glad yíall have this chat room. It helps me a lot! I am hoping this upcoming week my bread will be ready!! Iím going to try to bake the bread earlier in the day so we can have it hot and fresh with our supper! I have been buttering and flouring the pan, it just glides right out when I go to flip it on my cooling rack!
Do you think the bread I baked this week will make good croutons?

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 23 2018 :  9:43:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The bread you made this week should make great croutons. Iím glad that your breads improved this week. The pictures youíve been posting are so helpful! Iím so happy we have this chattoom too. Itís so nice to hear about all the breads people are making, and to have the opportunity to help troubleshoot, and offer advice and reassurance.

Iím keeping my fingers crossed that your next Bake Day goes off without a hitch and that youíre able to enjoy fresh bread with your supper!

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 28 2018 :  5:10:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My bread did much better this week!! I mixed it and started it at 9:00 AM and baked it at 6:30. It still wasn't all the way to the top, but it had changed shape and it had not risen much since 4:00 when I got home. So I figured instead of waiting till 12:00 like before I would bake it so it wouldn't have a really strong sour taste, and so we could eat it hot and fresh! It cut so much better than last weeks and had a very good texture! The tang was a little strong, but with some butter it was masked. My whole family tried it, and other than the strong sour taste, they all liked it. I told them that would get better over time.


My mother this morning.


My batter at 9:00 AM


My bread at 6:00 shortly before I baked it.

Sorry I haven't taken a picture of the bread baked yet, but it was good!!

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 29 2018 :  08:49:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your bread is looking much better this week! I'm happy to hear that the texture improved from last week and that it took less time to rise. It's looking like it's getting close to the edge of the pan, but you were right to bake it if you didn't really notice a change in the way it looked over the course of two hours. How did the tang compare to your loaves from last week?

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 29 2018 :  11:50:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was milder than last weeks, my mom said it reminded her of Panera Breads Asiago Cheese loaf. The tang, that is. I had a slice with butter today with my lunch it was very good, with butter itís not to tangy.
I am still getting about 5 1/2 cups of mother after I take out my 1/2 cup for next week. I thought it was maybe because I had previously forgotten a feeding. This past week I made sure I didnít forget any feedings. Do you think thatís why itís not rising all the way to the top?

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Sep 30 2018 :  09:10:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aside from the amount of flour and water you feed your mother over the course of a week, the volume of your mother can also depend by how active your mother is. More active mothers have more volume because there is more air in them. Naturally, a more active mother provides a loftier rise. Now that your mother is definitely getting better with each passing week, the rise of your breads should start to become consistent and reliable (rising within 6-8 hours), hopefully to the edge of the pan.

Another possibility for the reduced volume of your mother is if water is evaporating from it. Evaporation should be prevented as long as the towel covering your mother is kept moist at all times. Dry bread is a telltale sign that water evaporation is a problem. Based on the pictures you've posted of your batter and loaves, I don't think this is an issue--they look like they are perfectly hydrated.

Ashley Ogle
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Elisabeth_P
26 Posts
Elisabeth
Burlington NC
USA

Posted - Sep 30 2018 :  2:06:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I try to keep my mothers towel moist. Can you have to much water in the tray? Sometimes it was dripping when I moved it to feed. I add water to my dish a couple times a week

-Elisabeth
Proverbs 22:1
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Ashley
287 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 01 2018 :  07:57:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As long as the water isn't overflowing, it's not too much. Water dripping from the towel is normal, I just make sure that I nestle the towel behind the bowl at feeding times so water doesn't get all over the counter. Usually about 1/2" of water is plenty, although with the towel sitting in the water, this is tough to gauge.

Ashley Ogle
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