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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Oct 28 2019 :  5:43:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just started my wild yeast starter a few days ago. Excited about learning this new craft. I started it with organic unbleached whole wheat flour. Can I use organic bread flour in my breads?

Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 29 2019 :  09:58:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the Wild Bread chatroom, Rachel. I'm excited to hear more about how your mother goes. Are you wanting to blend the organic bread flour into breads with your whole-wheat mother? If so, I don't think this will be a problem, just keep in mind that the volume of flour added to each bread recipe may need to be adjusted because the flours you're using might absorb liquids differently than the single-flour recipes in Wild Bread.

Ashley Ogle
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MaryJane
150 Posts
MaryJane
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 29 2019 :  10:02:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome Rachel! As you think about using bread flour, make sure you find one that doesn't have additives. I think it's King Arthur that puts barley malt in their organic bread flour.

MaryJane Butters, author of Wild Bread ~ for we were all one family then ~
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Oct 29 2019 :  6:05:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, Ashley, I was wanting to use organic all purpose or bread flour with my whole wheat mother. MaryJane, thanks for the info about King Arthur. I did use organic white whole wheat by King Arthur for my mother. Five days in and it seems to be doing fine. I hope it doesn't have barley malt as an additive. I didn't check the bag for the ingredients. If it does, should I start over with another flour? I really appreciate the opportunity to ask questions from the experts!
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  04:03:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a few more questions and didn't know which forum would be appropriate. Today is day 5 of my mother. The last two days there has been a separation of water on top. I read where that was ok, but will it always have that? Also I started on a Friday evening, but want my bake day to be on Saturdays. If it isn't ready to make bread on Saturday morning should I remove 3/4 cup the first day, and then 1/2 each day until I bake the following Saturday? For what I remove, can I store it in the refrigerator for a few days before freezing? I'd love to make pancakes and pizza dough, and will want to try that sooner rather than later. Thanks!
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MaryJane
150 Posts
MaryJane
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  04:57:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good morning Rachel! I checked the King Arthur website and searched for an ingredient list on their organic bread flour. Yes, they put organic barley malt in it, but they do NOT put any additives in their organic white whole wheat flour, the one you're using presently. So, stay the course for now.

Ashley said she'd hop on here later this morning and weigh in on your other questions about water on top and changing your bake day.


MaryJane Butters, author of Wild Bread ~ for we were all one family then ~
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Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  09:44:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rachel, separation is normal, and some flours are more prone to it than others. It's just something that happens as a result of your mother sitting and settling. If possible, to curb this, you could stir it a couple extra times through the day. This will encourage wild yeast growth too.

As for shifting your Bake Days, moving from a Friday evening to Saturday morning should be no problem at all. The first week, you mother will have a little more volume from the extra feeding, but after that, you should be right on track. As far as portioning out your mother for use in waffles and other quick breads, I would recommend following the instructions in the last paragraph on p. 28, then portioning out the remaining mother in your Pyrex "bowl" for quick breads. The mother you remove should be ok in your refrigerator for two days or so, but shouldn't stay in there for much longer (mold is my top concern here). I hope this helps!

Ashley Ogle
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Oct 30 2019 :  5:30:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you MaryJane and Ashley. I did try stirring my mother a few extra times today and it is looking really good and not separating as much. I think it will be ready for baking Saturday. So excited!
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Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Oct 31 2019 :  09:43:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yay! I'm excited to hear about how your first Bake Day goes. Are you still thinking of making quick breads?

Ashley Ogle
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Oct 31 2019 :  3:01:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't have the round baking dishes yet so my plan is to try to make two loaves.
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Nov 02 2019 :  4:23:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used a casserole dish for the loaf pan, and did one of the round 2qt baking dishes. The bread tasted good but was really heavy. It rose up in only 3 hours and I baked it for the required time and checked the temp. I'm thinking of feeding my whole wheat starter organic white all-purpose (no barely). maybe that will make it a bit lighter? Also, why should we avoid flours with barley in them?
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MaryJane
150 Posts
MaryJane
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Nov 02 2019 :  5:09:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your bread looks pretty good given your mother is so new. It will loft more with every week that passes, although keep in mind whole wheat flour doesn't loft like white flour, which is the reason most commercial whole wheat breads use a combination of whole wheat and white flour, often referred to on the label as "gluten flour."

It's barley malt that we had trouble with. When it's added to flour, we had trouble keeping the mother healthy--she wanted to go sour and turn to something akin to booze. That makes sense in a way because barley malt is a manufacturing process that ferments the barley to make the barley malt primarily used in brewing.

MaryJane Butters, author of Wild Bread ~ for we were all one family then ~
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Nov 04 2019 :  2:59:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks so much for the info. I've been feeding my starter organic all-purpose this week and I can tell the mother is maturing. Lots of bubbling, so I'll try again this Saturday. Will I need to wait a month of 2x a day feedings before it is ready for shaped loaves? Can I check it earlier like suggested on page 62? I hope you guys don't tire of all buy questions!
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Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Nov 04 2019 :  3:51:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the loft you had with the whole-wheat flour after just week one was pretty amazing, so your mother is definitely responding well to its environment. If switching to all-purpose flour gave it even more of a boost, I understand why you're wondering if you can make shaped loaves. There is no hard-and-fast rule that you need to wait a month--it's more about how reliably your mother is giving rise to breads. Are you wondering if you can try a batch of shaped loaves with your Counter Mother, or are you wondering if you can convert your Counter Mother all together?

If you're wanting to try making shaped loaves with your Counter Mother, and you think your mother has enough oomph to raise shaped loaves, go for it! You can remove 1/2 cup and follow the instructions for any other the recipes from there.

If you want to convert your mother to a Refrigerator Mother, I think waiting at least two more Bake Days would be good, that way you can see if your rise times and loft are consistent.

Ashley Ogle
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Nov 10 2019 :  10:31:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I did two more loaves of the counter mother. It was better than the last but still seems not quite right to me. It rose very quickly, like last time (3 hours). I got it into the loaves before church this morning and when I came home, five hours later it was over flowing the pans. It didn't rise much more in the oven. I fed it all week with organic all purpose white. I will do it another week and try again on Saturday. I am hoping it becomes lighter and fluffier as the mother matures. i welcome any suggestions.

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Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Nov 10 2019 :  10:44:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your loaves are looking good! I still think your mother is developing at a really good clip. One thing I did notice is that your loaves are flat on the top. It looks like the may have risen so much that they hit whatever was covering them, which made them flat, but it also looks like they could have used a little more flour. Getting the consistency just right is a trick—too much flour and the loaves are heavy and pasty, but not enough and you get concave or flat loaves. As a consistency indicator, the book states the batter should be the consistency of softened cream cheese. This has tripped people up. Another way to think about it is that you want the batter to be almost too stiff to stir.

Ashley Ogle
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Nov 17 2019 :  6:07:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Ashley! I baked again on Saturday and the batter was much stiffer. I did a regular loaf and a round pan of cinnamon raisin bread. I mistakenly doubled the additions of cinnamon, raisins, and brown sugar for my one pan (followed the recipe for 2 pans), but it was so yummy! All the sugar didn't hurt it at all. The bread loaf, however, still isn't rising much at all in the oven and still tastes more like english muffin bread. Kind of hard and thick. Any ideas on what's going on with it? It rises fast on the counter, only about 2-3 hours, but really doesn't get any bigger in the oven. I think this is my fourth week of 2x a day feedings so I'll see what happens next Saturday.
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Ashley
440 Posts
Ashley
MOSCOW Idaho
USA

Posted - Nov 18 2019 :  09:44:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cinnamon-Raisin bread sounds yummy—it's been pretty drizzly here for the last couple days, so that sounds like the perfect comfort food. It's really good your breads are rising to the edge of the pan within 2-3 hours, now if you could just get them to spring up the last little bit in the oven, you'd be set. I'm not sure what's happening here beyond the mother just needing a little more time.

I don't know if it will help, but you could try baking your loaves on a center rack with a shallow pan of water on the lowest rack. The added humidity might give your loaves the boost they're in need of. Baking batter bread on the center rack won't crisp up the butter and flour in the bottom and sides of the pan like baking on the bottom rack will, but since your breads are coming out a little too hard and thick, it might help. We talk about the use of a Dutch oven and ice cubes for some of the recipes in the Advanced Section, and why it is helpful on p. 216 of the book. While a shallow pan of water won't create a blast of steam, as described on that page, it will still add a bit of humidity to the air, which could give your breads the boost they're in need of.

Ashley Ogle
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RMHayes
11 Posts
Rachel
Kingston Tennessee
USA

Posted - Nov 20 2019 :  2:37:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Ashley. I will try that this Saturday and keep my fingers crossed.
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