| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 21 2018 : 09:18:52 AM
This week I had to change suppliers of the grain I was using in my counter mother as I was no longer able to get it in Canada. It’s still organic and pure but I am wondering if it will set my week two mother back a bit? So far it seems okay... |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ashley |
Posted - Jun 14 2018 : 10:00:07 AM
Darn! If mine was just about to change and ferment, the timing was really poor, because it was pretty ripe on my Bake Day. Based on the smell, I thought it had gone bad. Maybe I'll try again soon.
How are all your mothers doing? |
| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 11 2018 : 3:54:21 PM
I know that smell as I thought the exact same about all 4 of my oat Mother’s. Each one took on this smell the day before the huge fermentation happened. |
| Ashley |
Posted - Jun 11 2018 : 09:40:40 AM
I hope you're Bake Day was a success, and it's great news that your oat mother finally became visibly active!
Sadly, I had to throw my oat-flour mother out.  About 2 days before my Bake Day, it took on an odor. It smelled similar to infant diapers, which is interesting because it previously had a faint sour smell. I'm not sure what to do differently, maybe I'll play with the flour-to-water ratio as you have done. I think it has to be something to do with the flour, because I'm also keeping a Kamut mother, which was bubbling away right next to my oat-flour mother. I'm going to ruminate on this for a little while and maybe get back to it. |
| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 09 2018 : 2:26:06 PM
Week four
This how thick and bubbling my oat mother was this morning. This is the one that really dramatically changed over the last few days.
I will see how it bakes up later today but so far it seems very thick. I added water to the batter as well as a small amount of flour. |
| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 08 2018 : 09:37:56 AM
Thank you for your reply Ashley. I didn’t receive it until I posted just now.
I appreciate your advise and have not added water to my batter breads.
I should take a picture tonight of the fermentation that has just taken place. It is a beautiful thing! It has taken almost 4 weeks and mine looked exactly like the picture you posted.
It’s another bake day tomorrow so I will try the newly very active mothers and add a bit of water. I have added the 3/4 cup flour and the consistency seemed like I softened cream cheese but it must have been too dense.
I also started a new one in the proofer and it most defiantly like the consistent warmer temps.
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| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 08 2018 : 09:31:14 AM
Good news! It’s been almost 4 weeks and my oat Mother’s are finally heavily fermented and full of bubbles.
What a change in the last few days. Like night and day
Now to figure out how to bake with it as the taste is really good but as it’s a thicker starter it tend to come out very heavy and gummy sometimes. It could be that it wasn’t ready to bake with yet as I now have the fermentation needed.
The most interesting thing about the oat is that the breads I have experimented with and was going to throw out actually taste, and texture wise, are completely different breads the next day.
It was a a very amazing discovery. Most gluten free breads are not at their best the next day but this gets better the next day and lasts for another three. Four in total.
If anyone has any suggestions for how to bake with a thicker mother? I am new to baking with sourdough so I am keeping a journal and just trying all different sorts of combinations until I get it just right. |
| Ashley |
Posted - Jun 06 2018 : 09:44:20 AM
Aside from the thicker consistency, one of the things I've noticed about my oat-flour mother is that the volume is much less than other mothers. I have a Kamut mother going right next to my oat mother, and it looks close to double the volume of my oat mother. I don't know if this is because the Kamut bubbles more, if the oat flour adsorbs more water, or a combination of the two. I would definitely add water to the batter bread. This will help build a little more volume into it and help with the thicker consistency. The consistency of my mother is thick and without adding water, it seems the most flour I would want to add is a 3/4 cup without adding any extra water.
My oat-flour mother will be two weeks on Friday, and based on the activity I'm seeing on the surface, I don't think it's ready for batter breads. The waffles were so good though, that I wouldn't mind a batch of oat pancakes. 
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| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 05 2018 : 12:47:30 PM
I have another bake day tomorrow with the oat mother and and going to do another batter bread.
Now that you have your oat mother going and know the consistency I am wondering how you would approach a batter bread with her?
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| Ashley |
Posted - Jun 01 2018 : 9:22:53 PM
You typically have to worry about mold when you have an over-active or underfed mother. This happens because the bacteria within the mother exhaust the food supply (flour added) in between feedings. As long as your mothers smell pleasant and don't have any mold growth, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
1/2 cup brown rice is close to the low end of flour in the chart. If your loaves are level on the top, you added the correct amount of flour. If they're sinking in the center, you need to add more flour. As your mothers mature, your loaves will loft more, but the rice flour breads will always be denser than breads made with other types of flour.
I made a baker's dozen of waffles with my oat-flour mother today and they were wonderful! Just a little crispy on the outside, and tender in the center. I gave up on the mother I started with the milled rolled oats because it was just so incredibly thick and it never did change. My mother made with oat-groat flour is a little thick and has a subtle sour smell. I didn't pick up any sour flavor in the waffles, but we'll see what it’s like next week!
Good luck on your Bake Day, I hope this is helpful!
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| Suzan |
Posted - Jun 01 2018 : 09:18:16 AM
Wondering if should keep my original two oat starters? I can see very small, with a magnifying glass, bubbles throughout and it smells slightly fermented and yeasty in a good way but I am not seeing the larger bubbles or the large air pockets andlofty rise of the Rice’s flours that happen between feedings. As I am new at this...is there anything food poisoning wise I should be wary of in an not so active mother?
My rice flours look exactly wile the picture in the book on page 33 second from the top. As my batter breads didn’t work at all last week with the rice Mother’s would you suggest another try with the batter breads or something else. Maybe the jump from week two to three is significant? Last week it was so hard right through even through it had a really great rise. I added the water and could only get 1/2 cup of flour as it became too thick.
The brown rice also only 1/2 cup of flour to the batter bread as it was much too thick.
Any other suggestions to have some success this week? |
| Ashley |
Posted - May 31 2018 : 10:38:59 AM
A little settling in the brown rice mother is normal. I was curious if the thick consistency of yours made it so it doesn't settle at all.
I will make waffles tomorrow and am looking forward to it. It seems like it will make very moist breads. The heat from your dishwasher giving your mother a boost is a happy accident! |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 30 2018 : 7:49:12 PM
How did your waffles turn out? I made muffins with my new oat mother and they were very moist.
Still not a lot of bubbling but it was interesting as I had to leave the 2 cups I was going to use for the muffins for a couple of hours and my dishwasher was on and the heat through the stone counter tops really warmed it up and it was really so much more active and full of bubbles. That extra heat, unintentionally, really made it start working.
My brown rice mother does settle a little between feedings.
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| Ashley |
Posted - May 30 2018 : 11:18:05 AM
I'm really looking forward to baking with the oat flour. The smell is very subtle--just a hint of sour mingling with the smell of the oats. I keep thinking that it should start bubbling soon, but it's only speckled with a few bubbles at each feeding.
The white rice is prone to sucking up water and does need more liquid added to recipes for this reason. It's fun to get the kids involved in the action. Does your brown rice mother settle between feedings? The quinoa is a pleasure to bake with and unlike any other gluten-free flour I've worked with. I am anxious to work with the oat flour to see if it's at all similar to quinoa. |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 29 2018 : 2:29:13 PM
My oat Mother’s have been slow to bubble as well and this being the start of week three I am finally seeing some larger, more pronounced bubbles coming up. I did have to change suppliers on the three week old one after week one so it might have slowed this down. The week one mother is bubbling slowly as well but is nicely emitting a fermented smell. All three have a much softer, More sweet somehow, fermented smell, not as strong as the others I have going.
I have two bake days with the oat Mother’s and did not see a lot of rise but the batter bread was very springy, moist and full of bubbles when baked. Truly delicious #128523; it was surprising because of the lack of bubbles throughout the week and the lack of rise on bake day.
I am feeding all three with different flour and water amounts.
The volumes of the mothers may even be more than the chart, but not less before baking. So I was good on the volume. The consistency seemed good until I added the flour and then with the first addition it seemed like the mother was ravenous and consumed the flour instantly leaving the batter way to thick in an instant. It was like a chemical reaction. My kids were fascinated it with it. Only the quinoa and the oat did not react this way. I did add the water to the white rice though...or I would not have been able to stir it. My white rice mother is just like this at every feeding. As soon as the flour is added it reacts instantly by thickening up and only relaxes by a in-depth stirring
The oat is very interesting isn’t it? I would think without some really good bubbles over two weeks it may have had some mould or liquid on top. But it still seems good and none of this has happened.
The taste is the same flavour I had in Australia so I know I am on the right path and so appreciate your help, wisdom and mother starting help out with this journey. I am thinking I may phone Austrailia today and see what I can find out from the Bakery.
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| Ashley |
Posted - May 29 2018 : 12:07:21 PM
I think I'll make waffles on day 7 with the oat groat mother. Not sure what to do about the rolled oat one, as it's clearly not going to work without adding a lot of water to the mix. Also, it has yet to take on any kind of fermented smell. It kind of smells like a bowl of cold oatmeal. I have noticed that the oat groat mother is a little slow to bubble. By now, I would expect to see a few more bubbles than I am, especially since its sitting right next to a Kamut mother that is bubbling away. I'm curious to see how this goes. Do you see a lot of rise on Bake Day with your oat-flour mother?
For your breads that needed less flour than the low end in the chart, is there a chance that you're losing some water from your mothers into the air? You mentioned that you're on the coast, so this might not be an issue due to natural humidity, but it's a thought. Have you measured the volume of any of your mothers the morning of Bake Day? If so, how do your volumes compare to the ones in the chart?
Too much flour in the batter is a likely suspect for hard breads. Something to note is that white rice and brown rice don't bake up as "airy" as some of the other grains. They are a bit chewy, but the inside should be moist and tender.
If your batter is still too thick to add even the smallest volume of flour in the chart, I would suggest adding water to the batter so you have enough batter for each pan. |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 29 2018 : 11:20:21 AM
Thanks for the pictures. Your oat groat mother looks like mine do. I don’t normally see more bubbles than that, even in week three.
Mine were never as thick as your rolled oat mother. Interesting
What are you going to bake on day 7?
Any suggestions or have you ever heard of not being able to use even the lowest of the amount of flour for the batter breads? They were just all to thick and were not even close to the “soft cream cheese” consistency. That could have been why they were too hard? In that situation, as we are on the coast, would you add the flour and then water as well? Or only enough flour to get to the cream cheese consistency?
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| Ashley |
Posted - May 29 2018 : 10:37:29 AM
It's interesting that your rice batter breads were so thick. The white rice mother is thicker than most, but the brown rice tends to be on the thin side. Quinoa is one of the thinnest mothers. All of the mothers vary in thickness. If I had to arrange them in order of thinnest to thickest, it would be: quinoa, einkorn, brown rice, white flour, sprouted wheat, Einka, Kamut, and white rice.
My oat flour mothers are on their 5th day of feeding. This morning, I noticed a few more bubbles on the one made with milled oat groats and the beginnings of a tangy smell. It's a little thick, but not quite as thick as say, the white rice mother. The one made with thick-rolled oats is...interesting. It's really, really thick. It has loosened, but only slightly.
Here's a picture of the oat-groat mother from the morning of day 3:
And here's a picture of the thick-rolled oat mother from the morning of day 3:
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| Suzan |
Posted - May 28 2018 : 12:28:12 PM
I had some surprises on bake day this week. Both brown and white rice were very thick with only 1/2 of the volume of the low end of flour required for the batter bread. So less flour, the rise was perfect, but when baked the white rice was very hard and the brown not much better. The quinoa needed under the low end of suggested flour for batter bread. The rise was perfect, texture after baking was outstanding, but so very bitter. So I discarded the two quinoa and do what you suggest and sprout my own to get rid of this. The oat batter breads didn’t rise much but again the taste and texture was wonderful and with a house full of kids, they devoured all of them. The oat mothers are not bubbling very well and with the suggested changes in feeding they are thinner. The brown rice mother, with the accident I had adding the salt and honey still seems to be bubbling nicely so I am hoping I am out of the woods with this one.
Wondering if all the mothers, except white rice, are of the thinner consistency like the quinoa? My white rice mother is very fermented but very thick by the time I need to feed again. My batter breads, after two weeks, would have been to thick to stir if I had added the lowest amount of flour the recipe called for. |
| Ashley |
Posted - May 26 2018 : 09:23:42 AM
This morning is the start of day 2 for my oat mothers. I'm using the standard feeding amounts from the book to start so I know what each is like with those amounts.
The mother made with milled oat groats is a little thicker, but I want to give it a few days and see how the consistency changes between feedings.
The mother with thick-rolled oats is very thick--I think I could pick some of it up and roll it into balls. The flour and water mixed in readily, but I don't think it is a good consistency for a mother. I will give it a couple more days and see if the consistency changes. |
| Ashley |
Posted - May 26 2018 : 09:14:40 AM
Oh no! It would be a shame to start over entirely, but on the other hand, it would be a shame to have the honey and salt throw off the composition of your mother. The salt is what I'm most concerned about. What if you scooped just 2 T of mother out, added it to your bowl, and continued feeding your mother as usual? That way, you get some of your wild yeasts, but the amount of salt and honey should be minimal and hopefully won't effect your mother. On the plus side, since you have a few mothers going, your brown rice flour mother should recover quickly. |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 26 2018 : 08:58:55 AM
Oh no!!! Just got started to bake today and on the first one, my perfect brown rice, I added the honey and the salt to the whole mother!!!! So sad. Just wondering if the 1/2 cup I took out after the addition will still work for the counter mother...or do I need to start again? I have be so careful about everything and feel just so disappointed I forgot to take the half cup out before this. Thanks in advance for the advise |
| Ashley |
Posted - May 25 2018 : 09:27:40 AM
Safflower oil would be a nice, neutral oil to use. It won’t pick up the flour use to dust the pans like butter or coconut oil will, but I can imagine that coconut oil would give off a bit too much flavor.
I’m happy the hear that 1/3 cup flour and 1/4 cup water is better so far! I do think that when you have a lot of mothers going they become active faster. I bought some rolled oats and oat groats yesterday. I’m not sure about the flour made from the rolled oats, but thought I’d give it a try because they are so accessible. I’m looking forward to seeing what each mother does! |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 24 2018 : 4:26:35 PM
Perfect. That’s what I have been doing and recording it for each of the oats so when I find the magic number I will have a record.
The new one, two days old, is already bubbling and is much thinner right away with the 1/3 flour and 1/4 water. It must like being surrounding by all the others bubbling away.
I don’t eat dairy so to grease the bowls last week I used coconut oil and I am not sure I liked that. Would you recommend the safflower oil in replacement of butter?
So glad you are joining me on the oat expedition! |
| Ashley |
Posted - May 24 2018 : 09:45:15 AM
Wow, 8 Mothers! It sounds like the oat flour is very unique as a mother. It makes a certain amount of sense because oats are prone to sucking liquids up like a sponge. The longer they sit, the thicker they get. I picked up some oats this morning to mill and will start a mother tomorrow. Fridays will be a good Bake Day for me. I'm anxious to get this started so I can have a first-hand view of what an oat-flour mother looks like.
Since I've never made an oat-flour mother before, and it sounds like it behaves differently from any other grain I've tried, I'm not sure on the maximum water-to-flour ratio. I think that conservative, incremental changes to the amount of flour/water you add is the best approach. If you find that 1/3 cup flour and 1/4 cup of water is still too thick, maybe try feeding equal parts--1/3 cup flour and 1/3 cup water. If that's too thick, I would drop down to 1/4 cup flour and 1/3 cup water, and so on... You'll want to try to keep the total volume you're feeding close to the original amounts so that the volume of mother you have at the end of each week isn't too large. The reason for this is that if your mother gets too large, the amount of flour added at each feeding will not be enough to sustain it. |
| Suzan |
Posted - May 23 2018 : 5:53:11 PM
I did notice a difference day 4 as well. It’s much lighter and easier to stir up.
I have 8 now with”new” oat one today. I did feed the new one tonight as you suggested and added more water less flour to the other two. It’s intersting with them as they have much smaller bubbles and become quite dense by feeding time. It seems this happens even when I add more water. I will keep documenting the oat Mother’s. Is there a ratio of water to flour that I should not exceed as I play? They have done so well I don’t want to loose them! |
